modus.irrealis wrote:

Nitzenalhe wrote:

It is vaig estar temptat de traduir... "I was tempted to translate..."; and tinguí and vaig tenir are correct but the second form is much more common.

Perhaps this is a false friend with French -- I was thinking of the Fr. tenter "to try" (one of its meanings at least) and I found that tenter = Ca. temptar, so I was trying to say "I tried to..."

Ah! You know, that interpretation didn't even occur to me. The Catalan verb can have this meaning also but not--as far as I know--with a dependent infinitive. That is, vaig temptar una traducció but not *vaig temptar de traduir. I'd use either provar or tractar instead.


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linguoboy wrote:

Ah! You know, that interpretation didn't even occur to me. The Catalan verb can have this meaning also but not--as far as I know--with a dependent infinitive. That is, vaig temptar una traducció but not *vaig temptar de traduir. I'd use either provar or tractar instead.

So false friend it is. And worse it looks like it's one of those pairs where they share one meaning in common but the other meanings don't quite fit perfectly.

modus.irrealis wrote:

Gràcies. It does make more sense now. Although, if there's too many non-standard forms, it'll get frustrating, I think, for me.

Nitzenalhe wrote:

It is vaig estar temptat de traduir... "I was tempted to translate..."; and tinguí and vaig tenir are correct but the second form is much more common.

Perhaps this is a false friend with French -- I was thinking of the Fr. tenter "to try" (one of its meanings at least) and I found that tenter = Ca. temptar, so I was trying to say "I tried to..."

Then I would use vaig intentar traduir la segona estrofa or vaig provar de traduir la segona estrofa.

Quote:

Quote:

Very well translated modus!!! It would be more easy to translate current texts than XIX century poetry!

True, but I read Wikipedia's description of the poem and the subject matter interested me and it's not too long (e.g. when I finally sit down and try to learn Spanish, I'm planning on reading through Don Quixote, even if that's not exactly the language people speak today), so it's a good intro to Catalan for me (knowing a Romance language already at least). Plus, I figure, since you posted the link as a bonus, that it can't be considered that poor of a poem either .

And a general question about the grammar. At first I was confused with com ells, since I saw ells listed at a grammar site as a subject pronoun, but the same site says that subject pronouns are used with propositions. Is that right? Do you say com tu, com nosaltres, com si, and so on?

Ells is a personal pronoun, "they" (3rd pl. masc.), and you can say com ells, of course; it means "like they". And, com tu "like you", com nosaltres "like us".

But com si means "as if": Sembla com si no t'importés "It seems as if you don't care", for example.


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Thanks.

Nitzenalhe wrote:

Ells is a personal pronoun, "they" (3rd pl. masc.), and you can say com ells, of course; it means "like they". And, com tu "like you", com nosaltres "like us".

But com si means "as if": Sembla com si no t'importés "It seems as if you don't care", for example.

Ah! I mixed up com with amb but now I understand what I got wrong. But just to make sure that you use subject pronouns with prepositions, do you say amb ells, amb tu, amb si (with themselves?)?

modus.irrealis wrote:

Ah! I mixed up com with amb but now I understand what I got wrong. But just to make sure that you use subject pronouns with prepositions, do you say amb ells, amb tu, amb si (with themselves?)?

Yes: amb ells "with them"; amb tu "with you".

But with si is a little different: this is a 3rd person reflexive pronoun, with both numbers (singular and plural) and both genders (masculine and femenine). And, as any reflexive pronoun (like mi "me", tu "you", etc.) can go alone or reinforced with the word mateix "same" (-self; -selves), so you can say:

Lluiten entre si or Lluiten entre si mateixos "They fight among(st) themselves".

Ella sempre porta diners amb si or Ella sempre porta diners amb si mateixa "She always has money on/with her"

Although you can also say:

Ella sempre porta diners amb ella (mateixa), which means the same.


And the same occurs with mi "me":

Penso en mi or Penso en mi mateix "I think in myself".


And tu "you":

Ajuda't a tu or Ajuda't a tu mateix "Help yourself".

Note that in this case ajuda't literally means "help yourself", so Ajuda't a tu mateix is a redundancy of Ajuda't a tu, which is a redundancy of Ajuda't.


And the same with the other personal pronouns...


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Thanks for the explanation.

Nitzenalhe wrote:

Ajuda't a tu or Ajuda't a tu mateix "Help yourself".

Note that in this case ajuda't literally means "help yourself", so Ajuda't a tu mateix is a redundancy of Ajuda't a tu, which is a redundancy of Ajuda't.

and a quick question, is that a there like the Spanish a, which I understand is used before the direct object when it refers to a definite person, or does it have some other role?

modus.irrealis wrote:

Thanks for the explanation.

Nitzenalhe wrote:

Ajuda't a tu or Ajuda't a tu mateix "Help yourself".

Note that in this case ajuda't literally means "help yourself", so Ajuda't a tu mateix is a redundancy of Ajuda't a tu, which is a redundancy of Ajuda't.

and a quick question, is that a there like the Spanish a, which I understand is used before the direct object when it refers to a definite person, or does it have some other role?

As far as I know, the a before the direct object is used to avoid undesirable meanings. It's not the same to say: Ens interrogaran tots "All of them will interrogate us" than Ens interrogaran a tots "They will interrogate all of us".

But with Ajuda't a tu mateix is different because you can also say Ajuda't tu mateix. Both sentences mean the same, but remember that these sentences are redundant.


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Ostres, feia més de dos anys que no em passsava per aquí! Això és mig mort!


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Nitzenalhe wrote:

Ostres, feia més de dos anys que no em passsava per aquí! Això és mig mort! :(

Mig mort? Home, no es queda més qu'un par d'alens en aquest cadàver!


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linguoboy wrote:

Nitzenalhe wrote:

Ostres, feia més de dos anys que no em passsava per aquí! Això és mig mort!

Mig mort? Home, no es queda més qu'un par d'alens en aquest cadàver!

Què és això de "qu'un" i "par d'alens"? Català rovellat o francès? XD

És una pena que hi hagi tan poca activitat per aquí. I reconec que en part sóc culpable, perquè vaig abandonar el fòrum i no hi he tornat fins ara.


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